<html>
<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>mentoring · t-compiler · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/index.html">t-compiler</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html">mentoring</a></h3>

<hr>

<base href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com">

<head><link href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/style.css" rel="stylesheet"></head>

<a name="220873690"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/220873690" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#220873690">(Dec 24 2020 at 14:45)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="120791">@RalfJ</span> that was in response to <a href="#narrow/stream/233931-t-compiler.2Fmajor-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20move.20compiler.2F.20crates.20to.20stable.20Rust.20compiler-team.23358/near/210004024">https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/233931-t-compiler.2Fmajor-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20move.20compiler.2F.20crates.20to.20stable.20Rust.20compiler-team.23358/near/210004024</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I don't think investing our limited effort to attract people who prefer using stable rather than x.py, or who want initial compile times to be under ten minutes, is going to lead to far more contributors (I appreciate that this is a simplification of why this is being proposed).</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I think both comments were probably off-topic in this thread.</p>



<a name="220873919"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/220873919" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#220873919">(Dec 24 2020 at 14:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>this thread, <a href="https://zulip-archive.rust-lang.org/131828tcompiler/38874Buildingrustcwithbetalibstd.html">https://zulip-archive.rust-lang.org/131828tcompiler/38874Buildingrustcwithbetalibstd.html</a>, and to some extent <a href="#narrow/stream/233931-t-compiler.2Fmajor-changes/topic/Improve.20defaults.20in.20x.2Epy.20compiler-team.23326">https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/233931-t-compiler.2Fmajor-changes/topic/Improve.20defaults.20in.20x.2Epy.20compiler-team.23326</a> got intermingled for a while</p>



<a name="220874087"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/220874087" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#220874087">(Dec 24 2020 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116107">davidtwco</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/233931-t-compiler.2Fmajor-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20move.20compiler.2F.20crates.20to.20stable.20Rust.20compiler-team.23358/near/210009562">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>My primary concern is just that we're utilizing our resources most effectively (though ultimately, contributors can spend their time where they want, so if this is what you want to improve, power to you) and investing in efforts that will yield the most return (from my own experience, it was the experience of the NLL working group that kept me coming back, not a lack of roadblocks; so I value investment in things like that more).</p>
</blockquote>
<p>As a point of interest, none of the teams I've joined have had mentorship programs, and even the people available to answer questions were stretched really thin on time and I had to figure out most of it myself. Having better tools(/documentation/defaults) would have helped a lot with that.</p>



<a name="220874128"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/220874128" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#220874128">(Dec 24 2020 at 14:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>(in general the number of people streched thin on time in the rust org concerns me, but that's not something we can solve with technical measure I think)</p>



<a name="220982985"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/220982985" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Lokathor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#220982985">(Dec 26 2020 at 23:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah we seriously need to <em>specifically</em> devote energy to training people. Like <em>actually stop focusing on new work</em>, and sacrifice features shipping sooner, to take time to build up training for more people to know what's going on.</p>
<p>It takes a dedicated effort to do this, but it's much better in the long run to have built up your ability to build.</p>



<a name="220997854"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/220997854" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Vadim Petrochenkov <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#220997854">(Dec 27 2020 at 07:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>What I've noticed is that people who come and say "I have free time, please give me tasks / please train me" often disappear either immediately after that, or after completing the first task, or otherwise have low retention rates / times.<br>
People who stay and do substantial work usually appear "out of nowhere", just start doing work, and learn by themselves (+ through reviews).<br>
(In other words, people who have motivation to stay for long are those who <em>invest</em> a lot, not who receive a lot.)</p>



<a name="220997859"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/220997859" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Vadim Petrochenkov <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#220997859">(Dec 27 2020 at 07:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>So I'm kind of skeptical about focusing on training (unless it's a full on collaboration with universities with intern positions), but would also interested in the results if it happen.</p>



<a name="221003221"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221003221" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Notification Bot <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221003221">(Dec 27 2020 at 10:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>This topic was moved here from <a class="stream-topic" data-stream-id="233931" href="/#narrow/stream/233931-t-compiler.2Fmajor-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20move.20compiler.2F.20crates.20to.20stable.20Rust.20compiler-team.23358">#t-compiler/major changes &gt; MCP: move compiler/ crates to stable Rust compiler-team#358</a> by <span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="124288">oli</span></p>



<a name="221003368"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221003368" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oli <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221003368">(Dec 27 2020 at 10:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>I have had a different experience. While people disappear, they also come back just as often. Though I do notice that before a certain point, most ppl prefer PMs (I'm guessing it's intimidating to be talking in public about some work when you have little experience so far?). I have mostly been doing mentoring and little programming for the last year, and I do think we should make the process around this more organized. I'm also willing to put in the work to get this set up in a way that is good for the newcomers as well as making sure we don't start draining the mentors. It must be an enjoyable experience for both sides.</p>



<a name="221004302"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221004302" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221004302">(Dec 27 2020 at 11:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>I can only speak for my own experience, but I started with "I have free time, what can I work on" and stuck around because of my experiences in the NLL working group (a mix of other new contributors learning and some experts). Anecdotally, I feel like a bunch of people from around that period have stuck around too (e.g. <span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116118">Matthew Jasper</span>, <span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116266">Santiago Pastorino</span>, <span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116113">lqd</span>  and myself, probably others), which suggests to me that there was something about that working group which led to higher retention of contributors. Of course, I've also got plenty of anecdotes of contributors only sticking around for their first contribution.</p>



<a name="221008120"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221008120" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221008120">(Dec 27 2020 at 13:03)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="123856">Vadim Petrochenkov</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/220997854">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>What I've noticed is that people who come and say "I have free time, please give me tasks / please train me" often disappear either immediately after that, or after completing the first task, or otherwise have low retention rates / times.<br>
People who stay and do substantial work usually appear "out of nowhere", just start doing work, and learn by themselves (+ through reviews).<br>
(In other words, people who have motivation to stay for long are those who <em>invest</em> a lot, not who receive a lot.)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I actually have a more cynical take on this: the vast majority of people will leave almost immediately <em>regardless</em> of whether they're mentored, and the reason more people doing substantial work learn by themselves is because most people learning by themselves give up before they make it to their first PR. On the bright side, this means that mentoring people - even though most of them will leave shortly - is just as likely to make people stay.</p>
<p>I think part of this is that the compiler feels overwhelming to work on - I know a <em>lot</em> of people in e.g. <a class="stream" data-stream-id="227806" href="/#narrow/stream/227806-t-compiler.2Fwg-prioritization">#t-compiler/wg-prioritization</a> that have been dedicating time regularly to the project, tried to make a PR, and gone back to prioritization work because they got stuck/thought it was too hard.</p>



<a name="221008330"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221008330" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221008330">(Dec 27 2020 at 13:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>(booo, zulip doesn't let me edit this late: for posterity, the conversation started in <a href="#narrow/stream/233931-t-compiler.2Fmajor-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20move.20compiler.2F.20crates.20to.20stable.20Rust.20compiler-team.23358/near/220569282">the MCP thread</a> and the first message wasn't moved.)</p>



<a name="221018206"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221018206" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Riccardo D&#x27;Ambrosio <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221018206">(Dec 27 2020 at 18:30)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I think part of this is that the compiler feels overwhelming to work on - I know a lot of people in e.g. #t-compiler/wg-prioritization that have been dedicating time regularly to the project, tried to make a PR, and gone back to prioritization work because they got stuck/thought it was too hard.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yeah as someone who does not know a ton about rustc i can vouch for this big time. I wanted to learn more about the type checker but the sheer scale of rustc and the amount of concepts and random things it has makes it an insanely daunting task and i couldn't find any great resources on it. It doesn't really help that the rustc dev guide has <code>TODO: actually talk about type checking...</code> :/<br>
Although i can say that the rustc dev guide is getting better and that is a definite step in the right direction. But overall rustc is just so gigantic and overwhelming and the build process is confusing that its hard to get into it and start learning, I really wish there was a dedicated mentorship program where you could talk to people who know their stuff and have them guide you through some tasks or answer questions.</p>



<a name="221018272"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221018272" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Riccardo D&#x27;Ambrosio <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221018272">(Dec 27 2020 at 18:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>For example, i was able to pick up how rustdoc's rendering works pretty fast because it's relatively small and doesn't have a lot of concepts. But as soon as i want to touch rustc_typeck it is way too scary and i honestly have no idea where to start on such a big project.</p>



<a name="221018455"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221018455" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Riccardo D&#x27;Ambrosio <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221018455">(Dec 27 2020 at 18:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>Another thing is that zulip is really overwhelming, especially the compiler zulips, they have a ton of topics and everything is crowded overall, i don't think that's the rust team's fault, it's just how zulip is, but i think that ties back to what <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="124288">@oli</span> said about preferring PMs. I prefer PMs or discord over zulip for this reason.</p>



<a name="221019571"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221019571" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221019571">(Dec 27 2020 at 19:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>I actually prefer Zulip because it helps keep things organized. Using Discord means that everything about, e.g., rustdoc is in one long stream of conversation. I think the bigger issue with Zulip is it's extremely disorienting until you get used to it because its mental model is fairly unique.</p>
<p>But, anyway, that's a bit off-topic for this Zulip thread :3</p>



<a name="221020157"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221020157" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Tyson Nottingham <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221020157">(Dec 27 2020 at 19:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think that mentoring in the form of improving the dev guide and code documentation would have the longest lasting and widest reach. Not to say you can't also mentor people in the traditional sense. But if experienced contributors are going to spread their knowledge, it would be nice for it to be captured in something that can help a wide audience. :)</p>



<a name="221020189"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221020189" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221020189">(Dec 27 2020 at 19:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, I think code API docs are super helpful in understanding how rustc works because they're attached to the code, thus automatically organized, and also less likely to become out of date.</p>



<a name="221020563"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221020563" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221020563">(Dec 27 2020 at 19:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>there was also the Lecture Series <a href="https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/compiler-lecture-series/9227">https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/compiler-lecture-series/9227</a> whose goals were to share knowledge via an interactive presentation which would later be added to the guide (and IIRC some of the chapters do indeed come from some of these lectures) and that would be nice to revive</p>



<a name="221020643"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221020643" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221020643">(Dec 27 2020 at 19:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>I should go watch those talks! <span aria-label="grinning" class="emoji emoji-1f600" role="img" title="grinning">:grinning:</span></p>



<a name="221021472"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221021472" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> devsnek <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221021472">(Dec 27 2020 at 20:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>just my 2c from hacking on rustc... comparing to my experience hacking on llvm and v8, it feels a lot harder to find things. unsure if that's to do with rust's inherent separation of data and logic, or maybe some tool like <a href="http://source.chromium.org">source.chromium.org</a> would be enough... is it acceptable to just spam post here with 10000 questions about everything? i think the layout of zulip definitely hinders that kind of discussion.... idk. just this weekend i was like "i feel like messing around with v8" and i ended up with a usable change that i submitted, but i feel like whenever i get that feeling about rustc, i can't even begin to understand the scope of whatever i want to experiment with. could just be me.</p>



<a name="221021481"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221021481" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221021481">(Dec 27 2020 at 20:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>what do you mean by a lot harder to find things?</p>



<a name="221021488"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221021488" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221021488">(Dec 27 2020 at 20:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>(this is a leading question but I want to hear your opinion first)</p>



<a name="221021749"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221021749" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> devsnek <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221021749">(Dec 27 2020 at 20:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>like for example yesterday i was attempting to experiment with closures a bit. i tried tracing through the codebase starting with parsing to see how they're handled, and i had a really hard time figuring it out. stuff like all the logic and implementation details of something would be in one file, except for some enum which is randomly elsewhere in a separate crate for no discernible reason. building a mental picture of the organization has been quite difficult for me. i'm curious if maybe this is one of those "you need an ide to understand this codebase" kind of situations, like tsc</p>



<a name="221021760"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221021760" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221021760">(Dec 27 2020 at 20:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>oh interesting, I've never tried to follow something all the way through the compiler like that</p>



<a name="221021761"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221021761" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221021761">(Dec 27 2020 at 20:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was going to say something about how it's hard to find where queries are defined</p>



<a name="221021809"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221021809" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221021809">(Dec 27 2020 at 20:22)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>is it acceptable to just spam post here with 10000 questions about everything? </p>
</blockquote>
<p>absolutely yes, by the way</p>



<a name="221021815"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221021815" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> devsnek <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221021815">(Dec 27 2020 at 20:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>another example, i was trying to figure out how <code>#[global_allocator]</code> works, and apparently it is just adhoc'd through the entire compiler. that's more of a refactoring thing i guess but when you're new to the codebase and trying to modify something it can be super difficult</p>



<a name="221021816"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221021816" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221021816">(Dec 27 2020 at 20:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>you should see my nonsense lol <a href="#narrow/stream/266220-rustdoc/topic/async.20functions.20show.20elided.20lifetimes.20.2363037">https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/266220-rustdoc/topic/async.20functions.20show.20elided.20lifetimes.20.2363037</a></p>



<a name="221021819"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221021819" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lqd <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221021819">(Dec 27 2020 at 20:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>oftentimes the reason for such splits to different crates is to reduce compile times ^^</p>



<a name="221021888"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221021888" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> devsnek <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221021888">(Dec 27 2020 at 20:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>fair enough :), perhaps making people feel comfortable with spamming zulip more would be good. i think the global message counter makes people wary of touching anything</p>



<a name="221021901"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221021901" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> devsnek <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221021901">(Dec 27 2020 at 20:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>also the fear when you're making a new topic that one already exists, but searching is IMPOSSIBLE because the search is USELESS</p>



<a name="221021913"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221021913" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221021913">(Dec 27 2020 at 20:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>FWIW this isn't stack overflow, I'd encourage you to make new threads instead of reviving old ones</p>



<a name="221023935"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221023935" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221023935">(Dec 27 2020 at 21:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>It's also helpful to other people when you ask questions; I like reading through some of the threads in <a class="stream" data-stream-id="131828" href="/#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler">#t-compiler</a> and <a class="stream" data-stream-id="182449" href="/#narrow/stream/182449-t-compiler.2Fhelp">#t-compiler/help</a> to learn from discussions around someone's question :)</p>



<a name="221023936"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221023936" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Riccardo D&#x27;Ambrosio <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221023936">(Dec 27 2020 at 21:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>One thing i dislike about zulip is that there isnt a topic-less thread or something to just ask quick questions, if i want to ask where something is done i shouldnt have to make a whole new thread for a simple question</p>



<a name="221024124"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221024124" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221024124">(Dec 27 2020 at 21:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>We could just create a topic named <code>quick questions</code> in <a class="stream" data-stream-id="182449" href="/#narrow/stream/182449-t-compiler.2Fhelp">#t-compiler/help</a> :)</p>



<a name="221024128"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221024128" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221024128">(Dec 27 2020 at 21:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I actually really like that there's nearly guaranteed threading, really helps to catch up after a day or two away; topics should not be treated as anything too permanent or important)</p>



<a name="221024130"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221024130" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Léo Lanteri Thauvin <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221024130">(Dec 27 2020 at 21:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think opening a topic here is not as big of a deal as in other platforms</p>



<a name="221024179"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221024179" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Léo Lanteri Thauvin <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221024179">(Dec 27 2020 at 21:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess opening a topic even if it will contain only 2 messages is absolutely fine</p>



<a name="221024202"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221024202" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221024202">(Dec 27 2020 at 21:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>A topic is kind of like an email thread, except lighter weight: the reason you give an email a subject is so the other people know what to expect – it gives a brief summary. It's the same with Zulip.</p>



<a name="221024249"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221024249" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221024249">(Dec 27 2020 at 21:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>And you shouldn't worry about having a great topic name; as long as it's in the ballpark of what you mean.</p>



<a name="221024272"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221024272" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Riccardo D&#x27;Ambrosio <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221024272">(Dec 27 2020 at 21:35)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="307537">Camelid</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221024124">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>We could just create a topic named <code>quick questions</code> in <a class="stream" data-stream-id="182449" href="/#narrow/stream/182449-t-compiler.2Fhelp">#t-compiler/help</a> :)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yeah but at the same time, the sheer number of threads created means it will just be buried</p>



<a name="221024314"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221024314" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Riccardo D&#x27;Ambrosio <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221024314">(Dec 27 2020 at 21:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>I wish zulip had a way to pin threads</p>



<a name="221024342"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221024342" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Léo Lanteri Thauvin <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221024342">(Dec 27 2020 at 21:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>(Something like <a href="https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/16548">https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/16548</a>?)</p>



<a name="221024550"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221024550" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221024550">(Dec 27 2020 at 21:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>I am opposed to a quick questions topic; I don't see significant advantages to not asking users to add a short subject - seems low effort and I'd not personally at least be able to keep up and answer questions, whereas per question topics mean that it's really easy to come back and answer people's questions in an hour or two - or to figure out if someone's replied to you</p>



<a name="221024818"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221024818" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221024818">(Dec 27 2020 at 21:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, I agree. I was just saying that it's not Zulip that's preventing topic-less threads.</p>



<a name="221026526"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221026526" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221026526">(Dec 27 2020 at 22:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>With respect to some of the difficulties in learning rustc mentioned earlier, one that resonates with me is that some parts of the compiler express concepts in a different vocabulary than Rust itself (or than other parts of the compiler). This makes it harder to use induction and piece together what something is doing based on the names of things, where you are in the compiler, and the rules of the language.</p>



<a name="221029638"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221029638" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221029638">(Dec 28 2020 at 00:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>Plus the names of types and functions in general are often not descriptive enough to be understood without docs. E.g., for a long time I didn't understand what <a href="https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/nightly-rustc/rustc_middle/ty/struct.TyVid.html"><code>TyVid</code></a> was; <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/80402">it was only yesterday</a> that I realized what it was. Going source-diving can help you figure it out, but there are so many names and concepts that you can't source-dive for them all.</p>



<a name="221029702"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221029702" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221029702">(Dec 28 2020 at 00:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>Another example is <a href="https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/nightly-rustc/rustc_resolve/struct.ModuleData.html#structfield.normal_ancestor_id"><code>ModuleData::normal_ancestor_id</code></a>; it was only after I used it incorrectly and <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/79956#discussion_r541773655">petrochenkov explained it</a> that I understood the name.</p>



<a name="221029706"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221029706" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221029706">(Dec 28 2020 at 00:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>Naming is hard, especially when you want short names, though!</p>



<a name="221029720"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221029720" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oli <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221029720">(Dec 28 2020 at 00:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>I do use the <a href="https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/nightly-rustc/rustc_middle/">internal docs</a> a lot instead of source diving, and I do feel like it is really useful, but I also know my way around already, so this is not a good data point.</p>



<a name="221029761"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221029761" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oli <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221029761">(Dec 28 2020 at 00:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>Especially searching for functions taking specific types as arguments or returning them is super helpful in the docs</p>



<a name="221029766"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221029766" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221029766">(Dec 28 2020 at 00:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>It's funny, I always forget that type-based search exists <span aria-label="laughing" class="emoji emoji-1f606" role="img" title="laughing">:laughing:</span></p>



<a name="221029782"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221029782" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221029782">(Dec 28 2020 at 00:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>I find the internal docs to be quite useful too (though I know my way around <em>somewhat</em> as well). But it's still hard to figure out the meaning of some of the names without looking at the source.</p>



<a name="221031355"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031355" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031355">(Dec 28 2020 at 00:57)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="307537">Camelid</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221029702">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Another example is <a href="https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/nightly-rustc/rustc_resolve/struct.ModuleData.html#structfield.normal_ancestor_id"><code>ModuleData::normal_ancestor_id</code></a>; it was only after I used it incorrectly and <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/79956#discussion_r541773655">petrochenkov explained it</a> that I understood the name.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Opened <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/80425">#80425</a>.</p>



<a name="221031402"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031402" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Riccardo D&#x27;Ambrosio <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031402">(Dec 28 2020 at 00:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>Honestly i kind of wish there was a document which listed out common concepts in the compiler like TyCtxt, GlobalCtxt, Session, DefId, etc. Without having to go through the entire dev guide (which doesnt cover all of them afaik)</p>



<a name="221031411"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031411" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Léo Lanteri Thauvin <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031411">(Dec 28 2020 at 00:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>There's the gloassary I guess</p>



<a name="221031416"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031416" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Léo Lanteri Thauvin <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031416">(Dec 28 2020 at 00:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>Feel free to open an issue if you think something could be improved btw</p>



<a name="221031467"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031467" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Léo Lanteri Thauvin <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031467">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I'm referring to this: <a href="https://rustc-dev-guide.rust-lang.org/appendix/glossary.html">https://rustc-dev-guide.rust-lang.org/appendix/glossary.html</a>)</p>



<a name="221031475"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031475" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Léo Lanteri Thauvin <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031475">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>Would that be the kind of document you're searching for?</p>



<a name="221031480"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031480" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Riccardo D&#x27;Ambrosio <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031480">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>Didnt know that existed <span aria-label="eyes" class="emoji emoji-1f440" role="img" title="eyes">:eyes:</span></p>



<a name="221031487"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031487" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Léo Lanteri Thauvin <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031487">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>Maybe we need to expose it a bit more then</p>



<a name="221031490"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031490" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Riccardo D&#x27;Ambrosio <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031490">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>But i mean, <code>   The data structure often referred to as tcx in code</code> this doesnt really explain it a lot <span aria-label="smiley" class="emoji emoji-1f603" role="img" title="smiley">:smiley:</span></p>



<a name="221031531"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031531" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Riccardo D&#x27;Ambrosio <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031531">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>Another thing which is a little bit offtopic but it adds more confusion and complexity is just sheer number of lifetimes used in rustc</p>



<a name="221031535"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031535" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Léo Lanteri Thauvin <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031535">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>It's actually not so bad I think</p>



<a name="221031536"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031536" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Riccardo D&#x27;Ambrosio <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031536">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>It seems like everything you do you need to carry a lifetime because of the allocation arena</p>



<a name="221031538"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031538" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031538">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:02)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="276242">Riccardo D'Ambrosio</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031531">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Another thing which is a little bit offtopic but it adds more confusion and complexity is just sheer number of lifetimes used in rustc</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Well, lifetimes are kind of an important part of Rust.</p>



<a name="221031556"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031556" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Riccardo D&#x27;Ambrosio <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031556">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, i understand that its for performance, but that doesn't really make it better</p>



<a name="221031560"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031560" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Riccardo D&#x27;Ambrosio <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031560">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah lifetimes are part of rust but that doesn't mean they can't be annoying <span aria-label="stuck out tongue" class="emoji emoji-1f61b" role="img" title="stuck out tongue">:stuck_out_tongue:</span></p>



<a name="221031562"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031562" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Léo Lanteri Thauvin <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031562">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>After a few contributions, I feel like these actually help because you don't actually have to reason about lifetimes</p>



<a name="221031602"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031602" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Riccardo D&#x27;Ambrosio <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031602">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>They're not hard they just add verbosity imo</p>



<a name="221031603"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031603" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031603">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>Though usually (as a newish contributor) you're not introducing new data structures, so the lifetimes often work out without much effort.</p>



<a name="221031609"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031609" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Léo Lanteri Thauvin <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031609">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>It's always the lifetime <code>'hir</code> of the HIR or the lifetime <code>'tcx</code> of the TyCtxt arenas</p>



<a name="221031613"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031613" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031613">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:04)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="276242">Riccardo D'Ambrosio</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031602">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>They're not hard they just add verbosity imo</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Rust is a systems-level language; it's just making things explicit :)</p>



<a name="221031619"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031619" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031619">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>I used to find lifetimes really confusing but gradually I've grown to really like them.</p>



<a name="221031620"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031620" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031620">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>I actually think they make it <em>easier</em> to understand the code.</p>



<a name="221031625"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031625" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Riccardo D&#x27;Ambrosio <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031625">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't see how that makes it better, sure, its more explicit, but its also more verbose</p>



<a name="221031628"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031628" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Léo Lanteri Thauvin <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031628">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>Right, they're a bit verbose</p>



<a name="221031633"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031633" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Riccardo D&#x27;Ambrosio <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031633">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>Again its not the fact that i dont understand them, its just that they're annoying because everything you do in rustc is tied to a lifetime and you need to always carry that lifetime</p>



<a name="221031643"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031643" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031643">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess. Rust can be a bit verbose sometimes, but the explicitness of everything makes it worth it to me.</p>



<a name="221031681"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031681" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Léo Lanteri Thauvin <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031681">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:06)</a>:</h4>
<p><del>That's nothing compared to trying to understand pattern bindings</del> <span aria-label="tired" class="emoji emoji-1f614" role="img" title="tired">:tired:</span></p>



<a name="221031699"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031699" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Riccardo D&#x27;Ambrosio <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031699">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>I also agree a lot in saying that rustc uses weird names for things</p>



<a name="221031710"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031710" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Riccardo D&#x27;Ambrosio <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031710">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>Or names that are unfamiliar if you just use rust and you don't hack on rustc itself</p>



<a name="221031747"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031747" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Léo Lanteri Thauvin <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031747">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>I find that particularely true for type stuff</p>



<a name="221031749"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031749" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Riccardo D&#x27;Ambrosio <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031749">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah me too</p>



<a name="221031754"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031754" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Riccardo D&#x27;Ambrosio <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031754">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>One example i had was trying to find how a struct is represented</p>



<a name="221031757"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031757" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Léo Lanteri Thauvin <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031757">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess it's because it's closer to type theory jargon than Rust jargon</p>



<a name="221031759"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031759" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Riccardo D&#x27;Ambrosio <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031759">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah that too</p>



<a name="221031929"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221031929" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221031929">(Dec 28 2020 at 01:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>What I like to do and am trying to more of when I only partially understand something is open a PR to add docs for it and then make it clear that it's an informed guess. Then someone who understands this can review it and either approve it or let me know what I got wrong.</p>



<a name="221073960"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221073960" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Riccardo D&#x27;Ambrosio <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221073960">(Dec 28 2020 at 16:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>haha i love that approach, since you learn more yourself and you help people understand it too <span aria-label="heart" class="emoji emoji-2764" role="img" title="heart">:heart:</span></p>



<a name="221075477"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221075477" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> apiraino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221075477">(Dec 28 2020 at 17:15)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="123856">Vadim Petrochenkov</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/220997854">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>What I've noticed is that people who come and say "I have free time, please give me tasks / please train me" ... </p>
</blockquote>
<p>(tangent to the topic) I notice that people show up on <code>#general/new members</code>, ask what to do and the same answers are often given, often by the same people. This is a very kind and welcoming approach but I wonder if a brief FAQ could help offloading and avoid the repetitive parts of this process. After the newcomer has read the "intro", further questions are of course welcome.</p>



<a name="221075536"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221075536" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> apiraino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221075536">(Dec 28 2020 at 17:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>(maybe such a document already exist and just need to be pointed out)</p>



<a name="221075618"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221075618" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221075618">(Dec 28 2020 at 17:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>I am strongly +1 for an FAQ :)</p>



<a name="221075710"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221075710" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221075710">(Dec 28 2020 at 17:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>although I don't think in this particular case it would always be applicable - an FAQ can tell people 'say what you're interested in as part of your introduction' but I don't know that we could link to every part of the project</p>



<a name="221075725"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221075725" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221075725">(Dec 28 2020 at 17:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>or at least, I think I personally would find an exhaustive list of links overwhelming</p>



<a name="221076573"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221076573" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> apiraino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221076573">(Dec 28 2020 at 17:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>you have a point, we don't want to map the whole ecosystem in a FAQ but I also see a high number of mentions of  clap, clippy, <a href="http://docs.rs">docs.rs</a>, wg-rls-2, the compiler streams, rust-doc dev documentation ...  would it make sense to at least group a dozen of these frequently suggested answers?</p>
<p>I also notice that on the website there is no apparent access to a "contribution section", people are redirected here and (rightfully) expect some directions by the doorman</p>



<a name="221086404"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221086404" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pierwill <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221086404">(Dec 28 2020 at 19:46)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>Camelid: What I like to do and am trying to more of when I only partially understand something is open a PR to add docs for it and then make it clear that it's an informed guess. Then someone who understands this can review it and either approve it or let me know what I got wrong.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>My feelings and approach exactly!</p>



<a name="221137353"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221137353" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> rylev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221137353">(Dec 29 2020 at 14:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>My 2cents as someone who is active in the Rust community but just recently really started to contribute to rustc (note I have lots of time to try to contribute). It is _hard_. People are generally kind but I've often felt worried I was asking too many questions and tried only to ask when I was stuck. The code is often not that well documented and so it takes a lot of spelunking to get even a bit of a familiarity with what's going on. Having an explicit mentor with whom I could pair on a feature would be <em>super</em> helpful. It's really nice to be able to ask tangential questions that are not 100% necessary for the task at hand but are still useful to get familiar with the compiler.</p>



<a name="221137418"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221137418" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> rylev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221137418">(Dec 29 2020 at 14:23)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="123856">Vadim Petrochenkov</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/220997854">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>What I've noticed is that people who come and say "I have free time, please give me tasks / please train me" often disappear either immediately after that, or after completing the first task, or otherwise have low retention rates / times.<br>
People who stay and do substantial work usually appear "out of nowhere", just start doing work, and learn by themselves (+ through reviews).<br>
(In other words, people who have motivation to stay for long are those who <em>invest</em> a lot, not who receive a lot.)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I would highly urge you to consider that a lot of people drop off because the amount of energy it took to just get one change in (and not really feeling like you understand the compiler any better than you started) is <em>highly</em> discouraging to those who might otherwise contribute again.</p>



<a name="221138743"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221138743" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oli <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221138743">(Dec 29 2020 at 14:43)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="224872">Ryan Levick</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221137353">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I've often felt worried I was asking too many questions and tried only to ask when I was stuck.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I am unsure how to communicate this, as I obviously have failed in the past: I am happy answering questions or just talking about random compiler stuff of any level and pedantery. Either I respond, then I am available, or I don't, then I'll respond once I am available.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Having an explicit mentor with whom I could pair on a feature would be <em>super</em> helpful. It's really nice to be able to ask tangential questions that are not 100% necessary for the task at hand but are still useful to get familiar with the compiler.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Maybe we should add more fine grained attributes to <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="220273">@Jane Lusby</span> 's awesome <a href="https://rustbeginners.github.io/awesome-rust-mentors/">mentor list</a>, so everyone who has the capacity to mentor can state what kind of mentoring they can offer ("can" includes "want", there is no need to distinguish that. Also no need to justify or explain the mentoring that is being offered or not). This feels like the "companies should communicate their salary range for a position" style thing. While ppl can already ask mentors how they'll to do mentoring, just including it in a public place lowers the entry bar significantly.</p>



<a name="221139246"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221139246" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Laurențiu <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221139246">(Dec 29 2020 at 14:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>As a one-off contributor, I didn't drop off because the process was too hard, but the tooling felt rather unnecessarily unfriendly. I wish <code>std</code> and the compiler were better separated and that <code>x.py</code> wasn't needed. To test a small change to <code>libstd</code> on Windows you need to go get Python first, probably wait some 40 minutes for LLVM to build, wait for the compiler (which always seemed to build one stage too many). That's quite a lot of stuff to ask for.</p>



<a name="221139447"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221139447" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Laurențiu <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221139447">(Dec 29 2020 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>matklad put it down quite well in <a href="https://matklad.github.io/2020/09/12/rust-in-2021.html">https://matklad.github.io/2020/09/12/rust-in-2021.html</a>. And see <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/irhj4o/blog_post_rust_in_2021/g52e0j7/">https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/irhj4o/blog_post_rust_in_2021/g52e0j7/</a> for an example of someone being put off by the whole build process.</p>



<a name="221154798"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221154798" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nagisa <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221154798">(Dec 29 2020 at 18:18)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="124288">oli</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221138743">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I am unsure how to communicate this, as I obviously have failed in the past: I am happy answering questions or just talking about random compiler stuff of any level and pedantery. Either I respond, then I am available, or I don't, then I'll respond once I am available.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I felt that IRC handled this somewhat better – you'd just feel like you're chatting and without necessarily implying you're expecting the other party to continue helping you. Threads in Zulip kind of imply investment and closer-interaction in someways I feel.</p>



<a name="221154853"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221154853" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> bjorn3 <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221154853">(Dec 29 2020 at 18:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>There are two rust matrixes. The mozilla one and the <a href="http://matrix.org">matrix.org</a> one.</p>



<a name="221154935"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221154935" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nagisa <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221154935">(Dec 29 2020 at 18:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>This happened in the past for me – I'm happy to continue chatting and helping while I'm around and even happy to be pinged once in a while, but then since it was only myself and the contributor in that particular thread they feelt like I'm the only one helping them and they felt the need to ping me for every question.</p>



<a name="221154948"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221154948" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nagisa <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221154948">(Dec 29 2020 at 18:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>and that gets old quick ^^</p>



<a name="221155101"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221155101" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nagisa <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221155101">(Dec 29 2020 at 18:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>As far as mentoring more broadly is concerned, so far any mentoring I've given has paid for itself many times over.</p>



<a name="221155260"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221155260" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nagisa <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221155260">(Dec 29 2020 at 18:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>Even if the contributor makes a PR or two before disappearing, they do work that I otherwise would have spent more time on than I did by helping said contributors working on those PRs.</p>



<a name="221182043"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221182043" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oliver <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221182043">(Dec 30 2020 at 01:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>unrelated, I'm interested to have access to the 'lab notes' for a PR, as it is<br>
now the code is presented [properly] as a blob on github, context around thought<br>
process/stages for how the changes materialized to their present state could<br>
represent some kind of hands-free mentoring and as a source of reference for<br>
future replication</p>



<a name="221182199"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221182199" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221182199">(Dec 30 2020 at 01:21)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="281739">@oliver</span> I tend to ramble about my PRs, you might find that interesting</p>
<ul>
<li><a href="#narrow/stream/266220-rustdoc/topic/async.20functions.20show.20elided.20lifetimes.20.2363037">https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/266220-rustdoc/topic/async.20functions.20show.20elided.20lifetimes.20.2363037</a></li>
<li><a href="#narrow/stream/266220-rustdoc/topic/Issue.2079497">https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/266220-rustdoc/topic/Issue.2079497</a></li>
<li><a href="#narrow/stream/266220-rustdoc/topic/Trying.20to.20get.20rustdoc.20to.20generate.20redirects">https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/266220-rustdoc/topic/Trying.20to.20get.20rustdoc.20to.20generate.20redirects</a></li>
<li><a href="#narrow/stream/182449-t-compiler.2Fhelp/topic/Rustc.20loads.20sysroot.20artifacts.20before.20cargo.20ones.3F">https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/182449-t-compiler.2Fhelp/topic/Rustc.20loads.20sysroot.20artifacts.20before.20cargo.20ones.3F</a></li>
<li><a href="#narrow/stream/182449-t-compiler.2Fhelp/topic/rustdoc.2C.20quickly.20.2379540">https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/182449-t-compiler.2Fhelp/topic/rustdoc.2C.20quickly.20.2379540</a></li>
<li><a href="#narrow/stream/182449-t-compiler.2Fhelp/topic/Is.20there.20a.20symbol.20for.20the.20empty.20string.3F">https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/182449-t-compiler.2Fhelp/topic/Is.20there.20a.20symbol.20for.20the.20empty.20string.3F</a></li>
</ul>



<a name="221182203"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221182203" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221182203">(Dec 30 2020 at 01:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I have a lot more if you want them, although the ones on Discord tend to be more ramble-y than helpful)</p>



<a name="221182290"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221182290" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oliver <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221182290">(Dec 30 2020 at 01:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>I suppose that is the issue in that the creative process isn't linear<br>
as might be the case if one was working through an experiment<br>
and simply recording the actions and outcomes</p>



<a name="221182367"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221182367" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221182367">(Dec 30 2020 at 01:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, that would be a lot of work to do - the closest you'll get is probably PR descriptions, but those sometimes lack all the context</p>



<a name="221182379"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221182379" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221182379">(Dec 30 2020 at 01:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe something like <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/75176">https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/75176</a>?</p>



<a name="221183222"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221183222" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oliver <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221183222">(Dec 30 2020 at 01:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>one also needs to understand and study the creative process, <br>
ideally in a linear and contained manner, <br>
though how change actually happens is hard to define</p>



<a name="221183268"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221183268" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221183268">(Dec 30 2020 at 01:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm not sure what you're asking for.</p>



<a name="221183332"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221183332" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oliver <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221183332">(Dec 30 2020 at 01:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>the lab notes for a PR</p>



<a name="221183398"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221183398" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oliver <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221183398">(Dec 30 2020 at 01:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>but that's not really how hacking on a problem progresses</p>



<a name="221183419"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221183419" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oliver <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221183419">(Dec 30 2020 at 01:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>lab notes are the series of steps needed to reproduce an experiment</p>



<a name="221183478"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221183478" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oliver <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221183478">(Dec 30 2020 at 01:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>if someone had to come along behind you and reproduce the PR<br>
it would be a summary of the steps involved</p>



<a name="221183490"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221183490" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oliver <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221183490">(Dec 30 2020 at 01:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>like the pseudo-code for a PR, a 'pseudo-PR' or 'PR-recipe'</p>



<a name="221183880"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221183880" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oli <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221183880">(Dec 30 2020 at 02:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>so... something like a high resolution (time step wise) diff tracking of the entire development instead of just the git commits?</p>



<a name="221183905"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221183905" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oli <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221183905">(Dec 30 2020 at 02:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>probably including whatever documentation was opened and any search entries that were done to obtain the information necessary to be able to do the actual implementation work</p>



<a name="221183965"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221183965" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oliver <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221183965">(Dec 30 2020 at 02:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>information which would be too much detail for regular code comments<br>
but which would be important if the code disappeared and one needed<br>
to redo the PRs commits</p>



<a name="221251929"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221251929" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> apiraino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221251929">(Dec 30 2020 at 22:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>so, I think the discussion in this topic is very important and has received very valuable points from anyone (the topic itself is an "evergreen" for every project). <br>
Don't know how or when, but I feel that scribbling down some notes about this discussion will be useful at some point (rust foundation etc.).</p>



<a name="221251947"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221251947" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> apiraino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221251947">(Dec 30 2020 at 22:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>Please find the document at: <a href="https://hackmd.io/IRVrcy4rS1e8T6xY0GdHEQ?view">https://hackmd.io/IRVrcy4rS1e8T6xY0GdHEQ?view</a></p>



<a name="221251965"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221251965" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> apiraino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221251965">(Dec 30 2020 at 22:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>The document should be editable by members od the HackMD rust team, in case let me know if cant edit it</p>



<a name="221252044"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221252044" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> apiraino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221252044">(Dec 30 2020 at 22:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>(actually I just wanted to play with my new cherry brown MX keyboard, true story)</p>



<a name="221316045"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221316045" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221316045">(Dec 31 2020 at 21:02)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="250987">@apiraino</span> FYI I think anyone on the internet can edit it. I'm not officially part of the HackMD team and it let me add a space (don't worry I removed it ;)</p>



<a name="221316358"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221316358" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> bjorn3 <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221316358">(Dec 31 2020 at 21:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>Seems like write permission is granted to all signed-in users.</p>



<a name="221319644"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221319644" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> apiraino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221319644">(Dec 31 2020 at 21:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>correct. when I write a document in the Rust HackMD team then I lose rights to subsequent permission edits :-/</p>



<a name="221319715"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221319715" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> apiraino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221319715">(Dec 31 2020 at 22:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>if anyone can fix that and set <code>write: owners</code> that would be great ...</p>



<a name="221329462"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221329462" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221329462">(Jan 01 2021 at 01:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>You might want to open a topic in <a class="stream" data-stream-id="122651" href="/#narrow/stream/122651-general">#general</a> to get an admin's attention.</p>



<a name="221674656"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring/near/221674656" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> apiraino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/mentoring.html#221674656">(Jan 05 2021 at 17:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm dropping here (for future reference) an initiative that could be evaluatd in the context of creating and committing to mentoring people:<br>
<a href="https://github.com/nikomatsakis/office-hours">https://github.com/nikomatsakis/office-hours</a><br>
(not specifically referring to Niko, just the idea itself)</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
</html>